{Philosophers' Corner}

PaulRotterdam · 10-12-2008, 10:16 PM

I do not know. Its also possible that these clones just simply work together all quiet because if something went wrong there are already clones or cloned material waiting for a new one. So the rivally can be avoided just by knowing there will be offspring by cloning of the original tissue.
On the other hand there could be wars upon the clones (nice film material) between other clones. If they are removed there is more space for our clones.

The Palestinian way...make more babies than they do in Israel and in 1000 years there is no Israel any more. If they could clone whole USA was Palestinans now already....

Cloning of humans is the end of human kind i fear.
Cloning of animals, trees, fruits, birds, fish, is something we do and carefully monitored it should be oke.

EoiyonVSwingzero · 10-13-2008, 03:34 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by neonworks

nope, it wont always end in bloodbath. if you can meet up with your clone as soon as its generated. you can convince your self(clone) that you are both original and you can work hand in hand since you two understand each other and you have the same ability as the other. as they say two heads are better than one.

You both can't be "original."

Exofluke · 10-13-2008, 08:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mcdibyoe

We're getting a bit off topic but anyway, I disagree. The clones at one point WILL try to become the original knowing that he/she is expendable. Thus only by acquiring and assuming the identity of the original can he/she insure his/her security and this can only be done by eliminating the original.

I disagree. Define what kind of a clone your talking about. If we're about a complete copy of another person, then why would the clone have any reason to want to become the original? If a person has thoughts of good and peace and is cloned with those exact intentions... suddenly the clone is going to change it's thoughts? Explain a bit more about that before I side with you...

What about cloning everything about you except for your brain and then "some how" completling a brain transfer. I'm sure that by the time we would ever get down to cloning humans we would also know of how to transfer a brain between subjects....

PaulRotterdam · 10-13-2008, 09:02 PM

@ Exofluke

That would be the logical next step after cloning....the brain transfer or better the information transfer. But then....do we need the soul transfer also or do we feel "home" in our new clone so to say? My guess its the latest of those, no real soul transfer, also because we do not know what that is i think. But it would be great when all next clones do not need to learn to read and all kind a things. Oke they do need to be updated on certain things.
When the original was used to telex (do you still know that), than the next clone learns telefax, but the next clone starts again with telex memories, or do we transfer each clones brain further on. Then we leave the original brain and do not know were it could lead to? Clone 3 is a mobile phone clone, nr. 4 a SMS clone, 5 is an....??? clone etcetc.

Or is it nice and the best time in our life our childhood and playing in the yard and waiting until father comes home after what he is exact doing we do not know, but after work we eat and play and watch sesamstreet before bedtime....

being clones we can work young, study young, more machinery clones....

天龍 · 10-13-2008, 11:36 PM

---deleted---

neonworks · 10-14-2008, 05:08 AM

What if we just clone our body or make a copy of us with a much younger age. then transplant our brain in to it and tada! your young again. that can be the source of immortality. just like how orochimaru transfers it self to another body when its current body is in its degradation point. that can be the use for cloning. since its from your body and all stats are the same as yours, you no longer need to worry that your brain would not accept your new body. plus you can upgrade the capabilities of your new body before your brain is transfered much like reincarnation upgrade.

天龍 · 10-14-2008, 07:03 AM

---deleted---

Exofluke · 10-14-2008, 01:34 PM

I imagine that's what cloning is about... living forever. Aside from helping dying people or that many other uses of cloning.

If a clone is copied exactly as the original... in every single way. Then yes I believe the clone should be given rights and treated like a birth grown human being. There is no difference between the original and the clone... so why treat rights any different?

EoiyonVSwingzero · 10-15-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Exofluke

I imagine that's what cloning is about... living forever. Aside from helping dying people or that many other uses of cloning.

If a clone is copied exactly as the original... in every single way. Then yes I believe the clone should be given rights and treated like a birth grown human being. There is no difference between the original and the clone... so why treat rights any different?

I say no rights should be given because they were manufactured like a toaster. Should a toaster have the same rights as a human? Also, the idea of the soul being what makes us "human" should ass even more incentive to not regard clones on the same level as "real" people (if you suscribe to the idea that God is the one that gives us our souls).

Exofluke · 10-15-2008, 01:26 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by EoiyonVSwingzero

I say no rights should be given because they were manufactured like a toaster. Should a toaster have the same rights as a human? Also, the idea of the soul being what makes us "human" should ass even more incentive to not regard clones on the same level as "real" people (if you suscribe to the idea that God is the one that gives us our souls).

and hence one reason why cloning is considered to be a bad thing; soul. If we got away with a clone and it turned out to be a success then bam; the soul has been defied (like many other things on religions). People are afraid that "the soul" is fake and cloning would just prove it. Don't need a soul to make a human and I completely believe the subject of "a soul" is foolish, just another tool to say "hey! come to church and pray with us".

If the toaster was exactly the same as you or me, then yes. Think about the idea of what has previously been said. The clone knowing it's manufactured and thus understanding it's expendable and thus will take extreme action. Giving the clone rights would eliminate this problem. Opposites my boy... key to solving any problem ^_^

10-12-2008, 10:16 PM	#761
PaulRotterdam Shiva Join Date: Jun 2008 Gender : Location: Rotterdam Posts: 311	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} I do not know. Its also possible that these clones just simply work together all quiet because if something went wrong there are already clones or cloned material waiting for a new one. So the rivally can be avoided just by knowing there will be offspring by cloning of the original tissue. On the other hand there could be wars upon the clones (nice film material) between other clones. If they are removed there is more space for our clones. The Palestinian way...make more babies than they do in Israel and in 1000 years there is no Israel any more. If they could clone whole USA was Palestinans now already.... Cloning of humans is the end of human kind i fear. Cloning of animals, trees, fruits, birds, fish, is something we do and carefully monitored it should be oke.

10-13-2008, 03:34 AM	#762
EoiyonVSwingzero Ifrit Join Date: Nov 2007 Gender : Location: VA, where the magic monkey lives Age: 19 Posts: 145	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} Quote: Originally Posted by neonworks nope, it wont always end in bloodbath. if you can meet up with your clone as soon as its generated. you can convince your self(clone) that you are both original and you can work hand in hand since you two understand each other and you have the same ability as the other. as they say two heads are better than one. You both can't be "original."

10-13-2008, 08:38 PM	#763
Exofluke Galaxy Renegade Join Date: Jan 2008 Gender : Location: A Dark World Age: 21 Posts: 3,417 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 3	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} Quote: Originally Posted by mcdibyoe We're getting a bit off topic but anyway, I disagree. The clones at one point WILL try to become the original knowing that he/she is expendable. Thus only by acquiring and assuming the identity of the original can he/she insure his/her security and this can only be done by eliminating the original. I disagree. Define what kind of a clone your talking about. If we're about a complete copy of another person, then why would the clone have any reason to want to become the original? If a person has thoughts of good and peace and is cloned with those exact intentions... suddenly the clone is going to change it's thoughts? Explain a bit more about that before I side with you... What about cloning everything about you except for your brain and then "some how" completling a brain transfer. I'm sure that by the time we would ever get down to cloning humans we would also know of how to transfer a brain between subjects.... Props to Butterfly: Spoiler!

10-13-2008, 09:02 PM	#764
PaulRotterdam Shiva Join Date: Jun 2008 Gender : Location: Rotterdam Posts: 311	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} @ Exofluke That would be the logical next step after cloning....the brain transfer or better the information transfer. But then....do we need the soul transfer also or do we feel "home" in our new clone so to say? My guess its the latest of those, no real soul transfer, also because we do not know what that is i think. But it would be great when all next clones do not need to learn to read and all kind a things. Oke they do need to be updated on certain things. When the original was used to telex (do you still know that), than the next clone learns telefax, but the next clone starts again with telex memories, or do we transfer each clones brain further on. Then we leave the original brain and do not know were it could lead to? Clone 3 is a mobile phone clone, nr. 4 a SMS clone, 5 is an....??? clone etcetc. Or is it nice and the best time in our life our childhood and playing in the yard and waiting until father comes home after what he is exact doing we do not know, but after work we eat and play and watch sesamstreet before bedtime.... being clones we can work young, study young, more machinery clones.... Last edited by PaulRotterdam; 10-13-2008 at 09:07 PM..

10-13-2008, 11:36 PM	#765
天龍 Shiva Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: --- deleted --- Posts: 309	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} ---deleted--- Last edited by 天龍; 11-05-2008 at 06:44 AM.. Reason: ---deleted---

10-14-2008, 05:08 AM	#766
neonworks Ifrit Join Date: Oct 2008 Gender : Location: Philippines Age: 18 Posts: 39	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} What if we just clone our body or make a copy of us with a much younger age. then transplant our brain in to it and tada! your young again. that can be the source of immortality. just like how orochimaru transfers it self to another body when its current body is in its degradation point. that can be the use for cloning. since its from your body and all stats are the same as yours, you no longer need to worry that your brain would not accept your new body. plus you can upgrade the capabilities of your new body before your brain is transfered much like reincarnation upgrade.

10-14-2008, 07:03 AM	#767
天龍 Shiva Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: --- deleted --- Posts: 309	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} ---deleted--- Last edited by 天龍; 11-05-2008 at 06:44 AM.. Reason: ---deleted---

10-14-2008, 01:34 PM	#768
Exofluke Galaxy Renegade Join Date: Jan 2008 Gender : Location: A Dark World Age: 21 Posts: 3,417 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 3	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} I imagine that's what cloning is about... living forever. Aside from helping dying people or that many other uses of cloning. If a clone is copied exactly as the original... in every single way. Then yes I believe the clone should be given rights and treated like a birth grown human being. There is no difference between the original and the clone... so why treat rights any different? Props to Butterfly: Spoiler!

10-15-2008, 12:57 AM	#769
EoiyonVSwingzero Ifrit Join Date: Nov 2007 Gender : Location: VA, where the magic monkey lives Age: 19 Posts: 145	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} Quote: Originally Posted by Exofluke I imagine that's what cloning is about... living forever. Aside from helping dying people or that many other uses of cloning. If a clone is copied exactly as the original... in every single way. Then yes I believe the clone should be given rights and treated like a birth grown human being. There is no difference between the original and the clone... so why treat rights any different? I say no rights should be given because they were manufactured like a toaster. Should a toaster have the same rights as a human? Also, the idea of the soul being what makes us "human" should ass even more incentive to not regard clones on the same level as "real" people (if you suscribe to the idea that God is the one that gives us our souls).

10-15-2008, 01:26 AM	#770
Exofluke Galaxy Renegade Join Date: Jan 2008 Gender : Location: A Dark World Age: 21 Posts: 3,417 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 3	Re: {Philosophers' Corner} Quote: Originally Posted by EoiyonVSwingzero I say no rights should be given because they were manufactured like a toaster. Should a toaster have the same rights as a human? Also, the idea of the soul being what makes us "human" should ass even more incentive to not regard clones on the same level as "real" people (if you suscribe to the idea that God is the one that gives us our souls). and hence one reason why cloning is considered to be a bad thing; soul. If we got away with a clone and it turned out to be a success then bam; the soul has been defied (like many other things on religions). People are afraid that "the soul" is fake and cloning would just prove it. Don't need a soul to make a human and I completely believe the subject of "a soul" is foolish, just another tool to say "hey! come to church and pray with us". If the toaster was exactly the same as you or me, then yes. Think about the idea of what has previously been said. The clone knowing it's manufactured and thus understanding it's expendable and thus will take extreme action. Giving the clone rights would eliminate this problem. Opposites my boy... key to solving any problem ^_^ Props to Butterfly: Spoiler!

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{Philosophers' Corner}

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