[H-Girl Jerri]

I pay a good deal of attention to politics, not just the stuff that CNN or FOX forces on the public but a lot of research on my own. Now I am not saying that Obama is the most qualified person for the job (I voted for Hilary) but for the life of me I can't understand the choice of Sarah Palin. I understand that she is one of the most popular governors and that she is a mother that has raised 6 children and is on her 7th. But Alaska was safely in the republican’s hands and they can't be foolish enough to think they are going to steal a lot of women away with this choice. Also look at the facts, Alaska according to the 2006 numbers had less than a million people living there and was ranked 45th when it came to GDP. Overall she has done very little to reform the political structure in Alaska and a lot of the reforms they keep talking about where done by the states house of representatives. I also don't understand how people get away with saying that because she has raised all of these children and balanced a family budget that gives her the qualifications. My grandmother raised 8 children, pushed them though a terrible public school system and her and my grandfather worked two jobs so they could help put them into college. She balanced her family budget and even found time to go to church every Sunday but by no means should she run for office. I am not downplaying the skill it takes to run a family but by no means does that equal running a nation. I'm a woman and I would love to see one in the white house but when I started asking theses questions to other people I was called sexist and was told I was holding her to a higher standard than I do men. That also happens to be the same slap down that people in the media get when they question if she should be on the ticket. My question is why are we not holding all of them to the highest standard? The next president has a mess to clean up not just at home but overseas (and no I am not talking about Iraq) so why are we not putting each and every one of them through a hellish gauntlet and see who comes out alive?

Now in my personal opinion I don't think we need a national mother, father, healer or pastor. What we finally need is a president who when things look bad will look you in the eye and tell you just how screwed you really are. Don't think I am sold on Obama after all of this and the way McCain ran to the far right wing during the primaries almost made me sick. What I am wondering about is why people think it's wrong to question Sarah Palin on her political issues? On a side note I don't care if her daughter is having a baby but if she wants people to stop talking about it she needs to stop doing photo opts with her daughter and her soon to be husband. Also people should back off her on if she is going to be able to spend enough time with her children, after all the vp’s job is to have a heartbeat and cast a tie breaking vote not much else.

[PaulRotterdam]

Always when i read about Palin, i hope its about Michael, but its Sarah again.
I do not know why all the fuss is there. Only that an old law on politics is that is good that everybody talkes about you, positive or negative, it about you, and that counts. Same law as in Advertisements. Youre name is mentioned, so the colorless McCain now has someone that can be talked upon, and also voted upon.
Like anyone cares is she has a daughter, her age and if she had 1, 2, or 10 friends and is knocked up. Yesterday no one cared. Now they pretent to care because they need to write something. So she is a mother, Hillary is and 3 billion here on earth are...
Margaret Thatcher was, Angela Merkel is, just look at were Palin & co is voting for and what kind a government it will be and if she is stable over the years and go on with youre life. Over 5 years there are new elections...

And yes, its strange that Alaska it part of USA, normally its a part of Canada or just another country. Just because geographical reasons this is. or logic.
Any Hawaiians liberation armies seen? Then i vote for them.
Not to mention that Hawaii is close to Kawaii so there are new opportunities i think.

Next Michael please, the important Palin.

[Sakujo]

Palin's real purpose was to get those right wing voters you spoke of to get out to the polls for McCain. he was hurting badly with his party's own base, and she was a great choice for making those loonies (who don't actually think about politics) jump out to vote. Will she catch some of the women's vote? No doubt about it. There are some people who supported Hillary only because she was a woman and who are now doing the same thing with Palin. Again, they're nuts who don't actually pay attention to politics, and they're likely a very small base.

Palin's purpose is only to meet these two requirements. That's why she's being kept in the shadows, repeating the same words nearly verbatim, and is being defended with the sexism thing. If she speaks about politics, she's fucked, because she's damn clueless.

Here's the list of why Palin is a terrible choice and McCain wouldn't haev dared pick her if he didn't feel he needed the above:

She hired someone else to do her job while in office
She vetoed legislation not because she thought it was bad, but because she didn't understand it. Many of these were brought back after public outcry
She got to her position by attacking her own party members for corruption (betrayal in the political sense) so that she could get into a position to have her own corrupt schemes work (politics as usual)
She took as much pork as possible during her administration, and only rejected 'pork ideas' once these plans looked dead (ie, bridge to nowhere), then still kept the money and repurposed it
She's anything but a fiscal conservative: Palin's town had no debt when she became mayor. She left it several million in debt. What's worse is that she spent the money on, for example, a sports complex, rather than a much-needed sewer treatment plant. When she noted Alaska's surplus, she wanted to redistribute the money across the state to the people, then borrow money to pay for new expenses (OMFG you're braindead.)
She, and her family, supports Alaska separating from the US

This list is by no means all that there is. It's just a glimpse of how terrible a pick she really is. If McCain dies or goes into a bad state where he can't lead, she'll fuck America up in a second. Like, Literally a second.

The media only defends her because they're government lap dogs.

[H-Girl Jerri]

I was hoping to find someone that supports her to post here but I seem to be falling short...

[Sakujo]

Originally Posted by H-Girl Jerri

I was hoping to find someone that supports her to post here but I seem to be falling short...

With stuff like this : [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Who can blame us?

[marchosias]

Well, i don't exactly support her but i think she was a smart pick to get votes. Didn't affect me personaly either way, but i currently am voting for McCain anyways. Shes still just the VP, but she does seem to have given the Republican party some energy. not that i care, i'm an independent, but thats what your vp is supposed to do. there policies are next to insignificant except on a few swing issues; its their job to secure the base and reach out to votes that the main candidate might not have taken.

Obama makes just about as much sense as Palin, but unfortunately he is running for president, not VP, so his lack of experience weighs much more strongly against him. if the way hes managed his campaign is any indication hes pretty damn bad at actual leadership and decision making, coasting solely on charisma. how do you take a campaign that should have won in a landslide against a broken Republican party coming out of one of the most unpopular presidencies in recent history, and mismanage it so badly that the outcome is completely up in the air? at least by voting McCain i only get screwed over if the elected president dies, rather than getting screwed over by the elected president.

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anyways, on the plus side for Palin, Alaska is one of the most foreign policy heavy states in the US, dealing with international waters and both Russia and Canada. minus only being governor for two years.

while family is all nice and fuzzy, it should have no baring on politics. really we don't know very much about Palin at the moment, and im still waiting for the campaign to progress before i make i final decision. however unless something major comes up, i'll be voting based mostly on the presidential candidate, not the VP. as the old quote goes, the vp is "worth about as much as a warm bucket of spit." i wish Biden was running for president rather than vp...

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and more off topic:

for fucks sake i wish the candidates on both sides would actually present their plans on the issues rather than general pandering to their base. national healthcare, oh yay happy. how are you going to implement it? pay for it? and not raise taxes? thats just an example, both sides are doing it.
I'm especially interested to see if either side can come up with a competent, detailed energy policy. I'd have to switch my vote to Obama if he did. unfortunately again both sides have done the standard 'oh we should look at alternate energy' without giving a real plan.

[PaulRotterdam]

Its normal that candidates do not tell theire plans because the first thing is normal to raise taxes the first 2 years and lower the taxes the last 2 years and then get re-elected, while no one knows the pain in their wallet from
4 years ago.
So now election day comes up, so you know you have to pay the next 2 years.
Only Clinton government was able to put an end to all the loss on USA dept money overall. He even could raise it to an increase...so money came in more then was given away.
Bush than gave an all time dept i think.

Funny thing is: in my european country left wing politicy always gave money away and then after 4 years a right wing government is earning money and lowers the national dept again. In USA this is the other way around.
Funny thing. Left-Clinton makes money and Bush right buys bullits and a sixth rocketshield or something illusioness.
( not to mention that Clinton is right wing on politics standards-issues here and Bush is considered as allmost KKclan ultraright already. But for you Clinton is just left and Bush just right)

Point is also....I have a myspace account and recieve almost daily 1 mail from Nigeria or Ghana about a nice extra income for me of about $ 500.000 I just have to put $ 500 in some account in Nigeria and then the 500.000 will on my bankaccount some days later....
Now they tend to offer their scams in € because the $ and the Nigerian Wookie are allmost same wallpapers worth.
...
So even in Nigeria they are smarter on economics than USA is.

[marchosias]

the € is on an upswing compared to the $ but its far from worhless, its still one of the strongest currencies worldwide. off topic however so nevermind.

i know its normal not to get a detailed plan out of a candidate. thats why i said i wish they would give them.

anyways, on topic, anything further on Palin?

[Sakujo]

i currently am voting for McCain anyways.

Consider the bias this may be giving you.

Shes still just the VP, but she does seem to have given the Republican party some energy. not that i care, i'm an independent, but thats what your vp is supposed to do.

No. The VP is supposed to be someone who knows policy and breaks ties in Congress, as well as take over projects, and the Presidency, if need be. Palin fails hardcore.

Obama makes just about as much sense as Palin, but unfortunately he is running for president, not VP, so his lack of experience weighs much more strongly against him.

Obama makes much more sense.

Obama has years of experience in a variety of positions. Plain's total experience is less than ten years in positions where she hired someone to do her job for her or didn't even do the damn job.

Obama is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations and is on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Palin just said in an interview "You can see Russia from Alaska." when asked about her foreign policy experience.

Obama has given legitimate, well-reasoned responses to questions on thigns like abortion. Palin continues to repeat fear-mongering soundbites, "patriotic" slogans, and her personal worldview as though all should be forced to subscribe to it.

This is only scratching the surface.

If you really want to say that Obama is a bad choice for President, please also recognize that you're saying basically the same about McCain. Their policies are nearly identical in some areas, and are very close in others. (I'm not a fan of either of them.)

if the way hes managed his campaign is any indication hes pretty damn bad at actual leadership and decision making, coasting solely on charisma.

Hilarious. You take your personal opinion (which is clearly ignorant of many facts) about his campaign and extrapolate that into what he'd be as a President?

how do you take a campaign that should have won in a landslide against a broken Republican party coming out of one of the most unpopular presidencies in recent history, and mismanage it so badly that the outcome is completely up in the air?

Obama's team was trying a new political theme that worked on the local and state level. Obama has been critical of said overlaying "hope" message behind the scenes, because he recognizes that idealism only goes so far. McCain picked up on the "so far" part and is now trying to use it himself, along with Bush's re-election tactics and the like. Political battles aren't easy. Moreover, these "studies" about the current status of voter opinion need to be investigated. Very often they have huge flaws and are sometimes purposely biased. If the study isn't flawed, sometimes the interpretation is.

(For example, stating that the popular vote is 50-50 based on a study of 1000 randomly selected individuals isn't enough. You'd have to ensure that your 1000 was at least somewhat representative, and you'd also have to analyze what questions were asked. Also, any study of a random sample from the whole US doesn't tell us about particular states, which are what actually win elections. Nor does it tell us about swing states.)

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm simply skeptical of nearly anything from TV news; no matter who it's in favor of.

at least by voting McCain i only get screwed over if the elected president dies, rather than getting screwed over by the elected president.

Again, McCain and Obama aren't that far apart on anything but typical Republican-Democrat divides like abortion, gay marriage, gun control, drugs, and the like. Obama gives good reasoning for some of his positions. McCain has yet to do so to my knowledge.

Also, Palin as VP = Superfucked America. Like, within a day. It isn't inconceivable that McCain, who has chronic health problems, could die within the first months of holding office. The White House could be stormed by people with rakes at that point.

No matter how much you may dislike Obama, Palin is a terrible, terrible VP pick for any thinking person.

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anyways, on the plus side for Palin, Alaska is one of the most foreign policy heavy states in the US, dealing with international waters and both Russia and Canada. minus only being governor for two years.

L-o-l. See above.

while family is all nice and fuzzy, it should have no baring on politics.

I actually agree with all of the Republicans who were saying before Palin was the pick that family life/character is important. I just don't think her daughter's choices are something to criticize. Palin may have educated her daughter with only abstinence-only education as much as possible. This is a failure as a parent and shows bad judgment; judgment based on personal wishful thinking rather than facts and reality. Palin is intellectually irresponsible.

really we don't know very much about Palin at the moment,

You don't know very much. Those who keep informed know quite a bit about her. And she's Frightening. Not because she's a bitch (though she certainly had quite the snappy replies in her interview), but because of what she believes, will act upon, is ignorant of, and how she thinks (ie, Not really thinking things through.).

as the old quote goes, the vp is "worth about as much as a warm bucket of spit."

Whoever said that was ignorant.

i wish Biden was running for president rather than vp...

On that much I think we might agree.

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and more off topic:

for fucks sake i wish the candidates on both sides would actually present their plans on the issues rather than general pandering to their base. national healthcare, oh yay happy. how are you going to implement it? pay for it? and not raise taxes? thats just an example, both sides are doing it.

Agreed. This is why we need four parties in the US; to help balance things out so that people are pressured to be informed and candidates are pressured to actually provide useful information.

I'm especially interested to see if either side can come up with a competent, detailed energy policy. I'd have to switch my vote to Obama if he did. unfortunately again both sides have done the standard 'oh we should look at alternate energy' without giving a real plan.

Obama's speeches on energy have gotten worse over time, in my opinion. The more of the spotlight he gets, the more stupid shit he says. Before the primary heated up he was talking about a national "WWII Sacrifice" type energy program to give up a lot of energy use and personal income in order to cut costs and drive new technology to rapidly develop. He wanted to make one of the US's new exports be alternate forms of energy like specialized wind, solar, and hydrogen power. It sounded brilliant. Now he's started this push for ethanol and other half-ass, dig-us-deeper solutions shit.

[H-Girl Jerri]

Sakujo I am voting for Obama and I am sorry but you can't bring up his experience sitting on a senate committee. Everyone needs to back off and agree that no one has the experience needed to run a nation until they are already doing it. Even being a governor of a large state pales when compared to the jobs that they are going to have to do. If all you are looking at is experience McCain has much more and I am not talking about his military record. I am going to say this and get so many people upset but I don't care anymore. People in the military have no higher a right of being voted in to office than anyone else and I am tired of people trying to say that I am wrong. Most of our "fighting men and women" spend their time out of a warzone and even then only a small amount actually does the fighting that the news keeps talking about. I am not trying to reduce the job they do or the risk they put them self’s in I am only saying that military should no longer be a factor in this area.
My main disagreement about her being picked is not that she has less experience it's that when you ask as republican what qualifications she has they bring up that fact that she raised a family and ballanced a families budget and that she knows how hard things are for the average American. I’m sorry I only wish things where as hard as people say they are. No I am not living in high style and yes I pay just as much for gas as the rest of this nation does. I hear people every day going on and on about there being no jobs around and sorry but that full of crap. There might not be any jobs around that you like or will enjoy but there are jobs if you get up and look for them. People need to stop trying to pretend that just because we are in America we can get the American dream and all live like Paris Hilton and not have a care in the world. The average American has it much better than people in other parts of this world it's just that we have gotten lazy and used to people doing what we told them and now we have to actually go out and do it our self’s. This place is a great place to live with a rich history, some good some not, and its time people stop thinking the sky is falling in on them. If you think things are bad and you can't seem to get ahead then I suggest you try going to Mexico or some place in Africa and see how easy they have it.
Sorry got a little off track there... Anyways I don't see how running a family has anything to do with running a nation. I know that the VP's job is to have a heartbeat most of the time but if McCain did get elected and god forbid something happened too him I don't want our national hockey mom running around with the launch codes.