[Sakujo]

Mr. Stimson , to use it so that military objectives and soldiers are the target and not women and children. Even if the Japs are savages, ruthless, merciless and fanatic, we as the leader of the world for the common welfare cannot drop this terrible bomb on the old capital or the new. He and I are in accord. The target will be a purely military one and we will issue a warning statement asking the Japs to surrender and save lives.

This isn't saying that no civilians are involved, but that the goal was to eliminate military production, rather than to shock the Japanese into surrender by striking a massively populated area.

Russia did not had the date of bombing and were supposedly to come into war 15 august. After 1 bomb they declared war earlier.

My bad, I didn't have the clip in my other post after all. This is what I was referring to, not the diary entries:

Mr. Alperovitz suggests that on the issue of Soviet participation in the Japanese war, Truman zigged and zagged after taking office in April 1945. In mid-June, American officials like General Marshall were arguing that a Soviet war declaration might "prove to be the decisive blow to force a Japanese surrender." But at Potsdam, Mr. Alperovitz writes, Truman sought to delay a Soviet war declaration: although it might have precluded the use of the bomb on Japan, it would have given Stalin a large foothold in east Asia.

[PaulRotterdam]

Originally Posted by Sakujo

This isn't saying that no civilians are involved, but that the goal was to eliminate military production, rather than to shock the Japanese into surrender by striking a massively populated area.

Hmm, as i read it, and others have read it also, Truman thinks the bomb is hitting a military object. But in fact the city itself was the target, with all citizens, and yes, some militair targets also. Hiroshima had not much, a mil. depot only and yes there were mil. army man.(Nagasaki had 2 Mitschubishi factories)

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

This is a nice site with translations/copy of the official documents.

They wanted a blast, not a missing bomb on a small (but important) military target. They choose diliberately a citizens target with some factories (ever seen a city without industrie?)
Hiroshima had no big militair significance, but was a nice big city with mountains around so the blast was bigger.

Do not forget this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - At the beginning of World War II, the bombing of civilians was regarded as a barbaric act. As the war continued, however, all sides abandoned previous restraints. But international law has always distinguished between civilians and combatants. Legal context to the decision, from a variety of international treaties and the 1996 World Court opinion.

Thats why Truman writes himselv into heaven.....he is bombing a pure militaric target... as the word leading leader...we as the world of common welfare .....bull....he has also become a barbaric.

I am of Rotterdam, well known of beiing bommed.

Truman, was falsley informed (whauw on such an important matter) or not smart enough to check the civilian city of Hiroshima to have..... 95 % civilians.

[Sakujo]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

This is a nice site with translations/copy of the official documents.

"In a radio speech to the nation on August 9, 1945, President Truman called Hiroshima "a military base." It seems likely, considering his July 25 diary entry, that he was not aware that Hiroshima was a city. Otherwise, he was being untruthful about the nature of the target."

As the person I quoted from before, I believe Truman knew what he was doing.

[PaulRotterdam]

So Truman was a liar if you think he was well briefed and knew Hiroshima was a civilian dominated city with a few mil. targets.
Ohw, well nothing new, just a politician, like the Bush lies about Iraq having mass destruction wapons.
Brings us back to the topic....Usa invaded 10 countries, killed Chili Salvador Allende, got us Cuba crisis, murders its own president Kennedy, so yah... best to wait untill China rullez the world beiing more integer and excisting over 5000 years.

[Sakujo]

Originally Posted by PaulRotterdam

So Truman was a liar if you think he was well briefed and knew Hiroshima was a civilian dominated city with a few mil. targets.
Ohw, well nothing new, just a politician, like the Bush lies about Iraq having mass destruction wapons.
Brings us back to the topic....Usa invaded 10 countries, killed Chili Salvador Allende, got us Cuba crisis, murders its own president Kennedy, so yah... best to wait untill China rullez the world beiing more integer and excisting over 5000 years.

China ruling the world would be far worse than the US ruling the world. That's my honest opinion, looking at the current direction the government is taking. The worst the US has done isn't as bad as China would do if it could, I think.

[PaulRotterdam]

We'll see and drop some guidelines here during the takeover process...

[marchosias]

Originally Posted by PaulRotterdam

So Truman was a liar if you think he was well briefed and knew Hiroshima was a civilian dominated city with a few mil. targets.
Ohw, well nothing new, just a politician, like the Bush lies about Iraq having mass destruction wapons.
Brings us back to the topic....Usa invaded 10 countries, killed Chili Salvador Allende, got us Cuba crisis, murders its own president Kennedy, so yah... best to wait untill China rullez the world beiing more integer and excisting over 5000 years.

now that there is being completely biased. China has invaded its neighbors. repeatedly. They've assassinated Buddhist monks and Tibetan leaders. Mass executions killed millions in the years after World War II, and many millions more starved to death in the wake of Mao's failed reform policies.

I've been truly impressed with China's development over the recent years, but to hold them as some shining beacon of peace and justice in comparison to the United States is an error.

also, the Cuban Missile Crisis was far from a one sided affair, and the country didn't "murder" Kennedy, one deranged man (or if you believe conspiracy theories possibly two or a handful of men) shot him.

[PaulRotterdam]

@ Marchosias

I do not worship China although it looks like it from my previous post. Its more a ... we will have to cope with them as biggest and mighiest empire in some time.(more near time than we wish probably). Due to theire number of people, economic and so on these are the ones to lead or play a much bigger role than before.
And yes also in their past there are things we didn't like to be there. Any country in change and growth can make such growth pains/situations were lots people die but still a country can grow better from it. Russia also has doen it people changes in the past and lateron was devided into smaller pieces. It is possible and logic that at one time Tibet, like Mongolie and other "countries" within China will separate. Time will tell.

Yes youre comment on Cuba crisis and especially Kennedy was partly correct. USA drove Cuba into Sovjet hands after Varkensbaai incident and Kennedy is to difficult for me.
I do not know / my guess is that some influentional parties / groups/ forces in USA took faith in their own hands and eliminated Kennedy. My point is: USA society lets them(those groups) do it, created them also, so USA therefore is responsible. How is that saying? Any country gets theire statesmen/government that they deserve.

But my points were a bit biased written yah.