Sex With Infants Condoned in Middle East

[Slayden]

An Islamic law called Shari'a condones sex with toddler and infant girls. They they thinly veil their intentions with carefully chosen words but a Muslim woman exposes it. It is also interesting to note how much the Muslim man that is interviewing her keeps trying to quiet her down by saying "No need to get into detail." She thankfully ignores him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16je0v1M2gM



And here's a vid where a man is saying that it is the woman's fault if she is raped:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OidWET7-NI



Islam also dictates that husbands have the right to rape their wives. In fact, Muslims are shocked that it is a crime to do so in the West.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzuhriMoWPk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbOUbexeG40



Finally, here are links that show where it is all justified in the Koran:

Muhammad's Own Words: Women - http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes.aspx?g=405&i=4530

The Pedophile Pirate - http://www.prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41023

[Rednal]

And they are generally of the opinion that we have problems. ^^ It's interesting to see how two cultures can each be doing something the other views as awful, and not understand why it is so. Not that I condone raping babies or anything. o.O Loli's in anime is one thing, but in real life... no. >.< Just no.

[chimpzy]

It is for reasons like these that i believe the Islam is in desperate need of it's own equivalent to the Enlightenment. It'll most likely be a very different from the one we had here in the West. But maybe it'll allow Muslims to relativate their faith. To realize that placing blind faith in a centuries old set of laws written under entirely different circumstances might not be the best way to advance themselves in the modern world. To adhere to the spirit of the holy scriptures, rather than the letter. To be able to openly discuss any subject, not a single exception made.
And maybe decide on a general interpretation of said scriptures on which all Muslims can agree, a decision in which everyone can freely participate without needing to answer for it.

After watching the various video's linked to in Slayden's post, I have the following comments:
The Shari's does indeed say it is the wife's duty to obey and satisfy her husband ... but there are passages in the Shari'a saying the husband in turn also has the holy duty to ensure his wife's (sexual) satisfaction (as well as being obligated to support her and any children). Furthermore, the Shari'a also says that a women's body and wordly possessions are her own and that the father, brother or husband has no right to claim them against her will. Failing either of these, is actually grounds for a woman to divorce her husband, which she has the right to (though I doubt it to actually happen in reality)
There is also a law stating that a post-pubescent female cannot be forced to marry anyone without their consent.

It sometimes surprises how the holy books can contain such well thought out metaphors and stories on morality, yet at the same time be full of passages that are open to one thousand different interpretations or just plainly contradict each other.

PS: "www.prophetofdoom.net" does not strike me as being very objective. I've seen it label all Muslims as terrorists and then calling this an undeniable fact. I find this questionable.

[Rednal]

Not NEARLY all Muslims are terrorists. And of those that are, many of them are being deluded by lies or else told the truth in a skewed manner to make them think a certain way. In short, it's just a few people who are causing trouble. It's very sad, especially when they do things like taking mentally impaired people and using them as suicide bombers.

[ElderKain]

Some Contries in the east go by the saying
*Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed (As in Periods/Time of the Month)*

Personally I'm a Loli fan, but when it comes to Real Life Pedo stuff, that's just wrong... that jist gives the Loli Art fans a Bad name...

[Sword]

Leaving the power in a few religious zealots can only promote violence and ignorance which can leave a society back in the dark age, while the world around them advances to the modern era. I do agree that the Islamic world is in need of an Enlightenment. Personally loli in anime is ok, while in real life is just wrong.

[chimpzy]

Quote: Originally Posted by ElderKain

Some Contries in the east go by the saying
*Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed (As in Periods/Time of the Month)*

From a purely biological point of view that is indeed true, in a way.

And for most of the worlds history boys were considered 'men' at 14 years old and girls old enough to marry and start pumping out babies as soon as they started menstruating.

[Slayden]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rednal

Not NEARLY all Muslims are terrorists. And of those that are, many of them are being deluded by lies or else told the truth in a skewed manner to make them think a certain way. In short, it's just a few people who are causing trouble. It's very sad, especially when they do things like taking mentally impaired people and using them as suicide bombers.

While I agree that not nearly all Muslims are terrorists, I disagree that the terrorists are being lied to. It is written in the Qur'an to slay all infidels (non-Muslims) and that war is the path of a true Muslim, "even if it is hateful to you." It depends on how closely they follow their own religion. I just cited the scriptures pertaining to women. Want another source that strictly cites "Allah's words" without a commentary?

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/....html#vertical

Qur'an 47:035
Be not fainthearted then; and invite not the infidels to peace when ye have the upper hand: for Allah is with you, and will not defraud you of the recompense of your works...

Surah 9:5
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the infidels wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

When the Qur'an says, "Slay the infidels wherever you find them, take them as captives, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them," the extremists can point to that and many, many other verses and say: "Look, this is what our religion teaches."

Moderate Muslims have a difficult time explaining away verses that incite violence because Islam teaches that the Qur'an was dictated word for word by Allah. Muslims teach that the Qur'an is the literal words of Allah in a stronger sense than Christianity believes the Bible is the word of God ... the Qur'an is more than inspired, it is dictated. They believe it is actually God speaking. There is no human element.

The moderates who might be fighting against Islam's dark side have the disadvantage of having to go against the plain-worded text in the Qur'an.

Quote: Originally Posted by chimpzy

PS: "www.prophetofdoom.net" does not strike me as being very objective. I've seen it label all Muslims as terrorists and then calling this an undeniable fact. I find this questionable.

Here's what the site owner said about statements exactly like the one you just made:

The critics of this work will claim that Prophet of Doom is offensive, racist,
hatemongering, intolerant, and unnecessarily violent. I agree - but I didn't write
those parts. They came directly from Islam's scriptures. If you don't like what
Muhammad and Allah said, don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.

Others will say that I cherry-picked the worst of Islam to render an unfair verdict.
They will charge that I took the Islamic scriptures out of context to smear
Muhammad and Allah. But none of that is true. Over the course of these pages, I
quote from almost every surah in the Qur'an - many are presented in their
entirety. But more than that, I put each verse in the context of Muhammad's life,
quoting vociferously from the Sunnah as recorded by Bukhari, Muslim, Ishaq, and
Tabari - Islam's earliest and more trusted sources. I even arrange all of this
material chronologically, from creation to terror.

As I said before, it depends on how closely Muslims follow their own religion. A Moderate Muslim who discounts whole chunks of the Qur'an and ignores it may be a cool person, but they'd have to be acting pretty much like an atheist under the title of Islam (which is common among all religions) for this to work. There is no "intolerance" or "skewed vision" on my part. The facts speak for themselves; they don't need me to do so for them.

[chimpzy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Slayden

As I said before, it depends on how closely Muslims follow their own religion. A Moderate Muslim who discounts whole chunks of the Qur'an and ignores it may be a cool person, but they'd have to be acting pretty much like an atheist under the title of Islam (which is common among all religions) for this to work. There is no "intolerance" or "skewed vision" on my part. The facts speak for themselves; they don't need me to do so for them.

Oh, I never meant to call you intolerant. I simply wished to imply that any commentary coming from that website should be taken with a grain of salt. They're comments, not to be mistaken for truths. But I doubt I need to tell you that. I'm just stringent about such matters, it's my job after all (literally).
But, I should have worded it in a way less open to interpretation (my bad).

In regards to your comments about the adherence of Muslims to religious dogma: that is quite true. My first comments in my original post relate to that, actually. Like I said before, the Islam is in need of an evolution. The Muslims themselves also need a better understanding of their faith as most of them barely know the actual contents of the holy scriptures. Many just accept whatever their Imams tell them as truth.
But, it is sad indeed to see that most of the worlds religions have teachings of violence and even sadder to see people then use this to excuse their cruelty and violence, for whatever purpose it may be (religious fervour or a different agenda).

There mustn't be a lot of Muslims on this forum. Usually questioning their faith or tradition, even slightly, is enough to provoke a torrent of aggravated protest.
Though I can understand that ... from a certain point of view. I'll put things in perspective. To devout Muslims, faith makes up an enormous part of their identity, much more so than even pious Christians. Faith is at the very top of a Muslims list of priorities, closely followed by honor.
Furthermore, everything faith tells them is absolutely true even if absurd. Combine this with all of this being everything you have ever known and constantly being told that this is how things should be, and you get an extremely rigid and inflexible mindset where no questions are asked and no doubt exists.
Now imagine someone whom you view as corrupt and immoral to come into your house, watch over your shoulders and scream "You can't do that, that's wrong!" at the top of his lungs at just about everything you do. Wouldn't anyone get pissed after a while?
This should make it a little easier to understand how zealous Muslims handle (or rather, don't) criticism.

Anime must be Haraam (Arabic term signifying all that is forbidden by God).

[kiziroglu]

Wow.... I was expecting you to come up with something new... Apparently, I'm wrong. same old THEORIES...

I will not let you give false information to people out here..

first of all, I don't care a damn about what those people are talking about in the videos you've just quoted.
Islam, gives everyone allowance to analyse religion, and you come out here telling me that those people are thinking otherwise, I'd tell you to first learn about fundamentals, then start judging what others think.
As a muslim who has quite some knowledge about his religion, I can assure you that all those videos are nothing but a result of misinterpretation. No information, that isn't supported by Qur'an (the holy book) is worth talking about. Qur'an; the true miracle of islam, keeping its original self for 14 hundred years.

Now... Read this well, quoting from anti-islamis web-sited whose translations are a total nonsense, is not very objective...

The one which you refer as Surah(9/9)...
firstly, qur'an is consist of surah s... Writing "surah" there, was enough to show me your level of knowledge on a topic you're trying to disgrace.
So, I took my qur'an into my hand, whicih has both arabic, and turkish text, and knowing some arabic, I can translate it from its original language at certain parts, like mis-translated words you'll see below.

surah title : El-tevbe
Verse : 1
<<
A serious warning from Allah and his Messenger
To the infidels with whom you've made an arrangement.
>>
information : this surah is clearly refering to the colony of Quraishi. Those who have some basic knowledge about Islam, should know who they are. They were the ones who kept muslims captive, tortured them , leaving them without food and water to death, and then started a war on muslims. Because things didn't go as they expected, they wanted to make a peace agreement. Muhammed ( pbuh) accepted the agreement, and this peace period was very useful for new people to be recruited. and many tribes converted to islam. During this period, according to the agreement, muslims who were captured by them were not to be given back. but those who converted to islam, and escape from them, came to muslims would be given back when wanted.

Verse : 2
<<
Spend 4 more months on the earth
Know that you cannot make Allah desperate
Allah will deffinitelly make those infidels suffer
>>

Additional information : Remember that, verses were the way Muhammed (pbuh) and Allah have interacted. By the time this verse arrived, muslims prepared for the war, and like I've said before, in one of my other posts, the only jihad in the history happened.
For those who find the words of Allah as brutal, listen well. This verses are only meant for the war against quraish tribe. and by the time this jihad happened, many of the quraishi population were already willing to convert to islam. Even the leader of quraish converted to islam, before the day of attack. For those verses to be followed, strictly, the same conditions must be provided. Neither in the history or nowadays, because there was/is never such agreement (other than quraish case), you cannot just simple quote from the verse 5, and say that Allah orders muslims to kill others. That'ws ignorance, and misleading people. If anyone has a second thought about the logic behind any of the words in Islam, should look into Qur'an from a non-subjective source.

More information : the verse three goes on like I said. It says "those whom you've had an agreement with" and "those who have done you everything/means everything bad"
And the verses after 5 also prove my words... If you doubt, read it...


surah title : El-tevbe
Verse : 35
<<
Allah will never forgive those who turned their backs to Allah, those who dies as an infidel, Allah won't forgive any of them.
Don't act loosely, neither ask them for sulh(sulh, in arabic, when used as Peace, indicates silence.), when you have the upperhand.
Allah is with you, and will not decrease the amount of your good deeds (clearly, states that those who don't wish to spend their time trying to get other people convert to islam, are welcome as well)
>>

And the part about treating women... Listen well...
Hadith are always a bad source to refer to, since they were not edit-free like verses, and got evolved from person to person within this huge period of time.
But, in one of your videos , some guy referred to the surah of "Nisa".
This is also an issue where lots of misinterpretation occurs.
The verse clearly states...

here is he misinterpretated part from the verse number 34
<<
If those women (refers to our wives) make your family-life impossible to live,
advice them
seperate your beds with them
and if they can't find the true way, darb(is a verb, I'll describe what it means) them
>>
darb : is force, and it has several uses.

the one, which is used in this context , is "leave" them, and emotionally shock them.

so, some people come out and say that when his wife doesn't sleep with him, he can force her into having sex. Does it say so ? Are the conditions provided ? No! And even if the conditions provided, it doesn't tell you to force her into having sex, it tells you to divorce her.

As for the one, where you were saying that islam allows having sex with young girls, I remember that the verse clearly said that "when their breasts got mature/became like a mature's", which is when the girl turns into an adult. Like I said, In my country the avarage age when girls can get married is 16, which is the end of their blue-age. I see no contradiction , do you ?

I find thread post verry irritating, and full of false information. Those who had a slight degree of change in their minds, by being mis-lead by all those nonsense, can read the Qur'an by themselves, and learn the truth. Qur'an is a great source, and to be able to talk about it, you should at least have a basic level of understanding about islam, which is only 1 page of reading.

Next time, find stronger proof to support your claims. Good days, brother. PEace be with you.