Painless Rape: A Moral Dilemma

[Daniel.]

Originally Posted by Junior666

Hey Slayden, what direction are you going in with this topic? Did you just want people's opinions? I'm kinda curious. o.o

I don't think people really get what you're trying to say. I think most think you're saying rape is okay if it's painless.

I dunno. *shrugs* I'm just a kid. =)

Thats what I was thinking just then, just as I opened the thread.

Slayden?

[Slayden]

Originally Posted by Junior666

Hey Slayden, what direction are you going in with this topic? Did you just want people's opinions? I'm kinda curious. o.o

I don't think people really get what you're trying to say. I think most think you're saying rape is okay if it's painless.

I dunno. *shrugs* I'm just a kid. =)

At the time I was writing it, I had mixed feelings as to whether or not I should even have started this thread, and I still have mixed feelings about it now, simply because I knew many people would misunderstand my intentions and think I support rape if it is painless. This is not uncommon for me. Most people misunderstand me and are confused by me because of how deep I take things while considering all sides. I've been told that I make people's brains hurt, that I'm overeducated, that I think I'm better than them, that I'm a know-it-all or a smart ass. Just because I can solve a Rubik's cube or know what "dactylioglyph" or "antidisestablishmentarianism" is (and spell it correctly) doesn't mean I think I'm better than everyone else.

Images and superficiality are the norm these days.

My intention was to have an intelligent conversation on a topic that isn't so easily pigeonholed. And the fact that this is a sensitive topic takes it to the extreme, making it even more appealing and thought-provoking. I try to get people to pause and seriously think about something before answering. In short, I want someone to talk to, and not just on the surface.
:defeat:

I wrote an article a while back on the Schizophrenic condition and was met with similar response.

Originally Posted by Kenadian

I think he's asking people what they think on it, whether it is moral or not or something like that.

Mostly. A small part of it was also me wanting input from some of these girls that have rape fantasies, what their take on it is. But mostly, I just wanted to know what people thought about it. Also most people don't know the different and unexpected ways that the body functions and I wanted to know how people would react to that too.

People think that so much is in their power, when in reality, very little is. Even modern society's "control" over nature is a tenuous and self-deluded grasp. When you break it down to something so simple as sexual consent, and the fact that people thought they had absolute power over their decision of "yes" or "no" and you take that away, forcing a person to feel good, something has to "click" inside. Even the concept is enough to show just how small and powerless we really are, even when it comes to our own bodies. And THAT is a reaction I was hoping for, even though deep down I knew it wouldn't come.

Originally Posted by Kenadian

And for what it's worth, most of us are "kids" here anyways. I know I wouldn't consider myself an adult yet, even if I am physically and legally. That being said, Slayden can't be much older than you, he's only 20.

Originally Posted by Junior666

nah, he's definitely older than me mentally.

About 4 years ago, an elderly woman (in her 70s I think), said I had the maturity of a 40 year old. I've grown a lot mentally in those 4 years so I'm not sure what I would be considered now. I only feel even more alienated and ostracized now from it. I can talk to the old because many of them understand me, but tend to discount me for my youth. The young are willing to accept me at first because of my youth, but over time tend to either fear me or ignore me.

They all know however, young or old, that if they have a problem and need someone to talk to about a personal issue, that they can come to me and I'll listen and try to help.

It's true that a person grows sadder as they grow wiser.

Originally Posted by kiziroglu

jsut wannna add a little comment here.
your thread title is : "painless rape ; a moral dilemma"
reading this, I'd assume that your understanding of rape is abusing one person "physically". mine, in fact , is that the existence of the physical action without one side not wanting it. Not only mine, but also of the laws...

Believe what you wish. I've said over and over that true, brutalizing rape is a short, painful physical act that leaves lasting mental scars. It's the mind-body correlation. Remove the pain in the act in the first place and the lasting mental scars never become inset.

Originally Posted by kiziroglu

morals aren't build on the reflections to the physical acts, they're build on the understandings of those acts; painful, or painless...

I'll refer you to my previous statements and posts. I grow weary of those who hear, but do not listen.

Originally Posted by Junior666

But I swear, the way people've reacted, you'd think he said painless rape was okay.

Yes... And that is... regrettable.

Originally Posted by Junior666

I suppose the whole moral thing...whether people would consider it rape if it was enjoyable? o.o

That was another part, one of my first reasons in fact. Again I'm back to the pigeonhole issue and getting people to stop and really contemplate it.

[kiziroglu]

Originally Posted by Slayden

Believe what you wish. I've said over and over that true, brutalizing rape is a short, painful physical act that leaves lasting mental scars. It's the mind-body correlation. Remove the pain in the act in the first place and the lasting mental scars never become inset.



I'll refer you to my previous statements and posts. I grow weary of those who hear, but do not listen.

1- Instead, I'd say that I beleive what I see, not what you're trying to empose me. Under the topic of laws, there's the idea of "morals", and this changes from one society to another, why ? Because every society has its way of understanding certain aspects. So, what are those acts that are regarded under morals ? In a country where muslim people exist, one cannot go and place a plastic bag full of unpleasant things in front of the door of the mosque . does this plastic bag have any contact with the outside, other than being exist there ? no ! but putting unpleasant things in areas can be conceived as a swear, and regarded according to morals.
Putting nude pictures in an islamic website is high non-etical, even carrying one person without his permission into somewhere he wouldn't wish to go can be related to moral issues. Because what shapes the moral issues doesn't consist of the way the victim sees the issue, the reactions of environment is also effective. Simple, when we were younger, people would make fun of those who accidentally stepped inside the females bathroom so much that, they'd wish to leave the school...
and rape :
is it an act against one side's will ? so it's regarded as a crime...
is it mental abuse ? I think so, and will tell you why. For me, to be able to say that it's a mental abuse, I must prove the way victim feels/thinks about it is not well.
would you be offended if someone held your hands ? depends on how he held ; if he made it look like a gentleman kissing a matmazel's hand, you could be offended.
would you be offended if someone , touched your feet ? probably no, well it's the organ that's in the public for the whole day, why would you get offended. unless the guy is a foot fetishist, and making weird figures...
would you be offended if someone , touched you back ? again, probably no... when in the queue, in the lines, people always put their hands into others' backs, like telling them to move...
touching to knee ? well it shows friendship, as long as the two sides are from the same sex. an image with opposite sexes might seem like more than a friendship.
final question... would you be offended, if someone touched your "private area". uhuh! it's named "private area", there fore it needs to stay private, not taken into the public, touched by strangers... unllike you're guy like "Hell yeah! I have a dick! therefore I'm a man! feel me world!"...
this is one level higher, from touching like one's chest. regardless of the breasts, heart is usually seen as the symbol of love, and when touched by others, give certain ideas to others. and people wouldn't be pleased by that.

which comes to my point, regardless of the volume of pain, an act that is seen unpleasant by the victim, is regarded under morals. You wanna tell me it's not ? go for it, "beleive what you wish"...

2)
I grow weary of those who thinks that oppposement comes from ignorance. *sigh*

[Junior666]

Originally Posted by Slayden

Mostly. A small part of it was also me wanting input from some of these girls that have rape fantasies, what their take on it is. But mostly, I just wanted to know what people thought about it. Also most people don't know the different and unexpected ways that the body functions and I wanted to know how people would react to that too.

uh, I can help there.=) With the whole rape fantasy thing...since it's like, my favourite one. But anyway...normally, rape fantisies are basically painless rape encounters (depending on what the girl is into). But for me, it's just the rough foreplay and dominating feel (male taking the lead), not the actual forceful penetration. Ohno...I'm digressing. D:

My view on this, is I'd still totally be scarred for life. It's actually scarier than brutal rape since he'd first make your body want it before he does it. It seems a more...clever and intelligent approach than your average rapist.

Remove the pain in the act in the first place and the lasting mental scars never become inset.

So your theory is, painless rape is easier to overcome? o.o Well...none of us can be sure of that, so you can't say that would be incorrect.

And I have no idea where kiziroglu is going. I'll wait for Slayden to clear it up. o.o
And omg, yes, you are over-educated. =/

Marry me? =)

[kiziroglu]

gosh, I'm saying that rape isn't a verbal abuse, it's a mental abusement. and therefore doen't create a dilemma, like slayden is saying.
or.. I'l put it simple for you...
painful rape : non-ethical
painles rape : non-ethical
now, according to logic rules, painful or painles gives non-ethical.
you missed a point ?
it works like this :
true or true : true
false or false : false
true or false : false
false or true : false
now, no matter how you see non-ethical, true or false, it'll result in non-ethical. an equation that's consists of one single value cannot be labeled as dilemma.
can you now understand it ?
but of course, wait for slayden to enlighten you... like, you cannot think for yourself....
PS : I'm not saying anything, just interpreting his words...

[Junior666]

^Maybe if you posted it like that IN THE FIRST PLACE, it would've made more sense.
And it's not that I can't think for myself, I just prefer his way of putting things. He manages to explain things in a way I can understand. You tend to over-kill it and beat around the bush.

And who said it was 'verbal' abuse? It all depends on what's happening and the rapist. And the fact it's 'non-ethical' either way is a given. Rape could never be justified.

And if you seem to think is topic is a waste of time, or simply retarded, Leave. The way you post, it sounds like you think you're better.

We're suppose to DISCUSS, okay? =) Rudeness is unnecessary.

[kiziroglu]

sorry that my language bothers you. this is my way of putting things. Still trying to keep my actions under the limits of discussion. you tell me something bothers you, I excuse for that. okay ?

I don't think it's a waste of time. this thread exists for people to discuss, and discussions educate people. Actually, what I'm trying to do is, show the real dilemma in the topic, starting from the topic title. I already left, leaving my final comments on the issue, but I'm around, to see whether my words are understood wrong, or manipulated.

I always think I'm better. I have the greatest mom and dad on the world, I have the most understanding girlfriend I could ever find, I have th best friends that suit me. do I need anything else to make me feel better? hell, no...

[Junior666]

Thanks for understanding. ^^ And I apologize if I seemed rude before or anything. =)

Sounds almost like a God complex, but, that's off-topic.

When it comes to court, here anyway, if a girl was made to feel pleasure or if she enjoyed it, then I know they don't give the rapist a heavy sentence. I remember reading an article where they treated the victim more harshly than the rapist.

[Slayden]

Originally Posted by kiziroglu

which comes to my point, regardless of the volume of pain, an act that is seen unpleasant by the victim, is regarded under morals. You wanna tell me it's not ? go for it, "beleive what you wish"...

God. I'm just going to start quoting myself.

Originally Posted by Slayden

I agree that in both cases, even in the male's case, it is technically rape.

A rape performed in the way I described would result in guilt, unhappiness, and a general feeling of mental discomfort, but not the mind-breaking result, and heart-wrenching sight, of a girl who was brutalized. I would feel this way too if I was tied up and forcibly jerked off by a guy (I'm not gay).

When did I ever say that it isn't morally wrong? Just because the painless rape isn't as traumatic doesn't mean that it isn't still wrong. And now you want to quote me on words you are putting in my mouth? then scold me for it??

Originally Posted by kiziroglu

2)
I grow weary of those who thinks that oppposement comes from ignorance. *sigh*

Your tit for tat and veiled mockery reveal your maturity, or lack thereof.

Originally Posted by Junior666

uh, I can help there.=) With the whole rape fantasy thing...since it's like, my favourite one. But anyway...normally, rape fantisies are basically painless rape encounters (depending on what the girl is into). But for me, it's just the rough foreplay and dominating feel (male taking the lead), not the actual forceful penetration. Ohno...I'm digressing. D:

LOL
This is why I prefer talking to girls. Even the simple, cute responses have deeper shades of meaning.

Originally Posted by Junior666

My view on this, is I'd still totally be scarred for life. It's actually scarier than brutal rape since he'd first make your body want it before he does it. It seems a more...clever and intelligent approach than your average rapist.

Unnerving maybe, but certainly not scarier. And perhaps some scarring, but what I'm saying is it wouldn't nearly be as deep. My mother was raped you see, a few years before she met my father. And I grew up having to deal with her near-hatred for men because of it. It should also give you an idea on the way she treated me, being a male. So you see, I know what I'm talking about when I refer to the level of scarring.

She accidentally revealed it to me when we had a fight, then told me of the horror she felt during the experience, and just how much she wanted it to stop because of how much it hurt. She isn't the only victim I've talked to either. Everybody talks to me. Even strangers on the street who I've never met before tell me about their personal problems and medical issues. It's like I have a neon sign on my chest saying "I'm here, tell me your troubles." When it comes to rape victims, I personally know 7 of them, 4 of them in my family. I'm not making my statements lightly.

Originally Posted by Junior666

So your theory is, painless rape is easier to overcome? o.o Well...none of us can be sure of that, so you can't say that would be incorrect.

Yes my theory is painless rape is FAR easier to overcome than a brutal rape. But that doesn't mean that I am saying that it is okay to do it. It's the difference between stabbing someone in the leg with a pocketknife vs. hacking off their right arm with a machete. It is easier to recover from one, but with the other, you've lost something for life. This doesn't mean that I'm condoning going around stabbing people in the leg, however.

Originally Posted by Junior666

And I have no idea where kiziroglu is going. I'll wait for Slayden to clear it up. o.o

He's just being antagonistic and formulating opinions based on paying attention to only half of what he reads.

Originally Posted by Junior666

And omg, yes, you are over-educated. =/

Marry me? =)

Thanks. I needed that. :f529a952: I was starting to slip into a depression.

[Daniel.]

Alas comming to ones terms with a mind like Slaydens makes thar` life hard-o`r.

*whistling wind*

However thy be a diff-er-ent stor-ay in thy's boudoir <3

hehe.